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	Comments on: Teacher Handgun Training	</title>
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	<description>53 years and 204,000 miles of business, CEO, leadership, startup, political, military wisdom</description>
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		<title>
		By: mburke73		</title>
		<link>https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4412</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mburke73]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2018 12:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s another set of voices on this complex topic: https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2018/03/an-army-officer-says-regulate-weapons-just-like-we-do-in-the-military/554816/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s another set of voices on this complex topic: <a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2018/03/an-army-officer-says-regulate-weapons-just-like-we-do-in-the-military/554816/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2018/03/an-army-officer-says-regulate-weapons-just-like-we-do-in-the-military/554816/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: mburke73		</title>
		<link>https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4411</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mburke73]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2018 23:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4410&quot;&gt;SFG&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for reading it. BRC and I went to college together and both served in the Army, though in different places at different times. We differ on many issues, but I know we do not differ on the importance of reasoned debate. I was grateful this blog offered me an opportunity to figure out my own thinking (at least at this point in time) by writing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4410">SFG</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for reading it. BRC and I went to college together and both served in the Army, though in different places at different times. We differ on many issues, but I know we do not differ on the importance of reasoned debate. I was grateful this blog offered me an opportunity to figure out my own thinking (at least at this point in time) by writing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: SFG		</title>
		<link>https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4410</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SFG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2018 18:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4409&quot;&gt;mburke73&lt;/a&gt;.

Your perspective is very interesting.   Thanks for sharing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4409">mburke73</a>.</p>
<p>Your perspective is very interesting.   Thanks for sharing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: mburke73		</title>
		<link>https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4409</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mburke73]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2018 13:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/?p=6247#comment-4409</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4408&quot;&gt;JLM&lt;/a&gt;.

You ask a question that is not theoretical for me any more, since the Missouri legislature is considering a similar program to that in Texas. In many ways, I would be a lousy candidate for the position--66, cataract surgery, slower reflexes, a variety of low-level physical concerns. I don&#039;t know how well i could manage a weapon. The last time I had to disarm someone was when I was a lieutenant.

That said, would I volunteer? I suppose I would, especially if it meant that either others would not have to, or that others would not be forced.

The larger, more complex issues include a variety of things: teachers have a lot dumped in their laps already--students with mental health issues, homeless kids, those from what we used to call &quot;broken&quot; families (few of my students and almost none of my developmental students come from intact, two-parent, middle-class families with secure finances), those who are refugees or other immigrants whose grasp of English may be good enough to let them test out of our award-winning ESL program but not good enough for college writing--the list goes on. The attacks on teacher unions nationally have also undermined the professional status of teachers, and the budget woes of the whole K-20 enterprise are legion--yet teachers are still expected to work miracles with complicated students.  

Adding--&quot;offer yourself up as a potential target for a mass shooter to save maybe some of your students&quot; might be a step too far. We can talk about security all we want, and we can talk about protecting students, but we have to recognize that arming teachers simply makes them targets, too. I volunteered to do that in the Army, and was lucky I only served in one conflict where I had to cash that chip, potentially, but I knew that going in--I was happy to have them pay for my college education in return for that possibility. Today&#039;s teachers did not make such a deal--and if the current administration push to eliminate the public service college loan debt forgiveness program bear fruit, then there is even less incentive to ask teachers to be armed. 

I also think about the logistics of this--the Texas program separates ammunition and weapon when instructors are in contact with students--in the classroom, in the halls, in the cafeteria, in the office--where AREN&#039;T we in contact with students? So how long will it take for the &quot;marshal&quot; to retrieve ammunition and weapon and load and position him or herself to tackle a shooter? Might the marshal be a target on the way? And frangible bullets sound like a good idea unless the shooter is wearing a vest--like the Aurora one did. A frangible bullet will not knock out an armored target. In fact, the more I look at the specifics of the Texas program, the more I see it is a problematic one. It it like TSA--it is security theater. 

Another aspect to this is that teachers did not create this problem of increasingly easy access to firearms. That lies at the doorstep of the NRA and its political allies. So expecting people like me and my colleagues to become the solution to a problem we did not create is also a reason to oppose arming teachers and instead look at the systemic issues involved in easy access to weapons.

I am sorry for providing such a long-winded answer to your straightforward question. But I do not think this issue admits to simple solutions, though I think we all wish it did.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4408">JLM</a>.</p>
<p>You ask a question that is not theoretical for me any more, since the Missouri legislature is considering a similar program to that in Texas. In many ways, I would be a lousy candidate for the position&#8211;66, cataract surgery, slower reflexes, a variety of low-level physical concerns. I don&#8217;t know how well i could manage a weapon. The last time I had to disarm someone was when I was a lieutenant.</p>
<p>That said, would I volunteer? I suppose I would, especially if it meant that either others would not have to, or that others would not be forced.</p>
<p>The larger, more complex issues include a variety of things: teachers have a lot dumped in their laps already&#8211;students with mental health issues, homeless kids, those from what we used to call &#8220;broken&#8221; families (few of my students and almost none of my developmental students come from intact, two-parent, middle-class families with secure finances), those who are refugees or other immigrants whose grasp of English may be good enough to let them test out of our award-winning ESL program but not good enough for college writing&#8211;the list goes on. The attacks on teacher unions nationally have also undermined the professional status of teachers, and the budget woes of the whole K-20 enterprise are legion&#8211;yet teachers are still expected to work miracles with complicated students.  </p>
<p>Adding&#8211;&#8220;offer yourself up as a potential target for a mass shooter to save maybe some of your students&#8221; might be a step too far. We can talk about security all we want, and we can talk about protecting students, but we have to recognize that arming teachers simply makes them targets, too. I volunteered to do that in the Army, and was lucky I only served in one conflict where I had to cash that chip, potentially, but I knew that going in&#8211;I was happy to have them pay for my college education in return for that possibility. Today&#8217;s teachers did not make such a deal&#8211;and if the current administration push to eliminate the public service college loan debt forgiveness program bear fruit, then there is even less incentive to ask teachers to be armed. </p>
<p>I also think about the logistics of this&#8211;the Texas program separates ammunition and weapon when instructors are in contact with students&#8211;in the classroom, in the halls, in the cafeteria, in the office&#8211;where AREN&#8217;T we in contact with students? So how long will it take for the &#8220;marshal&#8221; to retrieve ammunition and weapon and load and position him or herself to tackle a shooter? Might the marshal be a target on the way? And frangible bullets sound like a good idea unless the shooter is wearing a vest&#8211;like the Aurora one did. A frangible bullet will not knock out an armored target. In fact, the more I look at the specifics of the Texas program, the more I see it is a problematic one. It it like TSA&#8211;it is security theater. </p>
<p>Another aspect to this is that teachers did not create this problem of increasingly easy access to firearms. That lies at the doorstep of the NRA and its political allies. So expecting people like me and my colleagues to become the solution to a problem we did not create is also a reason to oppose arming teachers and instead look at the systemic issues involved in easy access to weapons.</p>
<p>I am sorry for providing such a long-winded answer to your straightforward question. But I do not think this issue admits to simple solutions, though I think we all wish it did.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JLM		</title>
		<link>https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4408</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JLM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2018 20:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4407&quot;&gt;mburke73&lt;/a&gt;.

.
The schools which have their own police forces have had a fair number trials.

How would feel personally about carrying a concealed weapon?

BRC
www.themusingsofthebigredcar.com]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4407">mburke73</a>.</p>
<p>.<br />
The schools which have their own police forces have had a fair number trials.</p>
<p>How would feel personally about carrying a concealed weapon?</p>
<p>BRC<br />
<a href="http://www.themusingsofthebigredcar.com" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.themusingsofthebigredcar.com</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: mburke73		</title>
		<link>https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4407</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mburke73]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2018 19:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/?p=6247#comment-4407</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting discussion. I teach at a community college with sworn police officers (employees of the community college district)--but there are only three on duty on our multi-building campus (student population 8,000+--down from 11,000 at height of recession). 20K students in entire district spread over four campuses and two learning centers. 

Missouri is also looking at Texas model--some legislators have put together similar enabling legislation this year. If it passes, our college board members would have to decide what to do.
 
Of course, no one knows if Texas model really works--it hasn&#039;t been tested by a school shooting. Some have argued that the school marshal program is a deterrent, so of course there haven&#039;t been any incidents--proving or disproving a negative is impossible. And no one knows if the training or safety procedures really would be as effective as folks assume it would be. 

My own experience is not dispositive--I&#039;ve carried a weapon pretty much 24/7 only in combat, but was never personally threatened to the point where I had to fire it. 

here&#039;s recent POLITICO article on the Texas program: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/24/armed-teachers-texas-trump-362397]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting discussion. I teach at a community college with sworn police officers (employees of the community college district)&#8211;but there are only three on duty on our multi-building campus (student population 8,000+&#8211;down from 11,000 at height of recession). 20K students in entire district spread over four campuses and two learning centers. </p>
<p>Missouri is also looking at Texas model&#8211;some legislators have put together similar enabling legislation this year. If it passes, our college board members would have to decide what to do.</p>
<p>Of course, no one knows if Texas model really works&#8211;it hasn&#8217;t been tested by a school shooting. Some have argued that the school marshal program is a deterrent, so of course there haven&#8217;t been any incidents&#8211;proving or disproving a negative is impossible. And no one knows if the training or safety procedures really would be as effective as folks assume it would be. </p>
<p>My own experience is not dispositive&#8211;I&#8217;ve carried a weapon pretty much 24/7 only in combat, but was never personally threatened to the point where I had to fire it. </p>
<p>here&#8217;s recent POLITICO article on the Texas program: <a href="https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/24/armed-teachers-texas-trump-362397" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/24/armed-teachers-texas-trump-362397</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: JLM		</title>
		<link>https://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#comment-4405</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JLM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2018 18:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/?p=6247#comment-4405</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[.
Should the US have armed teachers in the classroom? What kind of training would that require?

Texas has been doing it since 2013. What are they doing?

http://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#more-6247

On Earth as it is in Texas!

BRC
www.themusingsofthebigredcar.com

#guns #teachers #teacherhandguntraining #Parkland]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.<br />
Should the US have armed teachers in the classroom? What kind of training would that require?</p>
<p>Texas has been doing it since 2013. What are they doing?</p>
<p><a href="http://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#more-6247" rel="nofollow ugc">http://themusingsofthebigredcar.com/teacher-handgun-training/#more-6247</a></p>
<p>On Earth as it is in Texas!</p>
<p>BRC<br />
<a href="http://www.themusingsofthebigredcar.com" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.themusingsofthebigredcar.com</a></p>
<p>#guns #teachers #teacherhandguntraining #Parkland</p>
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